Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

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VictorL
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Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Hi!
Working with an imported text sometimes there needs to replace a computer commas [...("...") or (“...”) or ('...') or (``...``) etc ...] with a printed commas («...»).
To use Find & Replace dialog is difficult because it'll replace or first or second comma only («...« or »...») or to find every comma and replace it manually.
Maybe something new or more automated?
I was told to be an internet services where to insert some text and its commas replace with a needed ones. But I found nothing :?
Maybe some tricks?
But I'd like to notice again that there's a big text to edit it manually (for comma's replacement).
Thanks for all answering.
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Hi!
Sorry for hurry above... :arrow:
One can understand commas like an inverted commas or a quotation marks...
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Victor,

You can search for and replace with the « and » characters directly. You just need to insert them in your document and then copy them to the search/replace dialog. If you want to replace opening and closing quotes with them you will need to do the first pass manually, however, to get all the opening or closing quotes before you can then do a global pass to do all the quotes at the other end. There is really no other way to do this -- even if you did it on the source code of your topics with a regex-capable grep tool it would still be very complicated, because you would have to write a regex that could identify opening and closing quotes in any position, and that is almost impossible to do reliably. This is because quotes can appear in so many different positions.
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Thanks, Tim!
Tim Green wrote:You just need to insert them in your document and then copy them to the search/replace dialog.
Would you care doing me a favour to understand written above detailed?
Tim Green wrote:...to do the first pass manually...
You mean I search every opening symbol manully then replacing closing symbol with search/replace help? I knew it before. This eats much time specially if an editable text is very big.
Tim Green wrote:...almost impossible to do reliably. This is because quotes can appear in so many different positions...
Maybe some logically for search/replace dialog..?
Saying if first (..."...) belongs to some word and second (..."...) belongs to the same word too -> (..."Graphics"...) THEN the dialog makes that -> (...«Graphics»...) etc.
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Tim Green
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Victor,
Would you care doing me a favour to understand written above detailed?
You can't type those characters on the keyboard. So to get them, you need to insert them once in a document with the Symbol tool in Write > Insert Object. Then copy it to the clipboard with Ctrl+C and paste it into the Search and Replace dialog with Ctrl+V instead of typing it (because you can't type it).
Maybe some logically for search/replace dialog..?
That's not possible. The only option would be to do it on the source code with regular expressions, and even then it would be very unreliable.
You mean I search every opening symbol manully then replacing closing symbol with search/replace help? I knew it before. This eats much time specially if an editable text is very big.
That's true. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't avoid having to do some serious work... :twisted:
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Thanks, Tim.
Tim Green wrote:That's not possible.
Interesting WHY :mrgreen:
I see every first symbol has its own second symbol pair (..."...&..."...) .
What complicated to trace first and second symbols at once to replace them with "X-Mas tree quotes" -> (...«...&...»...) :? ?
Tim Green wrote:Unfortunately, sometimes you can't avoid having to do some serious work... :twisted:
OK. If it would be an other way to insert these ones (...«...»...) as usually but (..."..."...) - as from the code table insertation only...
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Well what to say...
This time it's only way to use MS Word but with a little bit waste of time :?

Making replace with a Word's help to need 5 steps for my sorries :P
1. Copy text from H&M topic to MS Word or firstly editing text in MS Word not importing in H&M.
2. With Find/Replace dialog searching a special insertation as "> (.."... stands at the beginning of word ) or <" (.."... stands at the end of word ) then replacing with « (if word's begin) or » (if word's end).
3. Finding not replacing symbol " and replacing it with « (if word's begin) or » (if word's end).
4. Copy text from MS Word to H&M topic.
5. If the styles are broken to need applying a H&M styles for this topic again.
That's all... :mrgreen:

Very difficult for the first eye... but I couldn't find any to do this manually...
Maybe use java scripts, macros, C++ miracles but it needs more time to write them...

Tim, maybe if your developers have some time they'd think to make a logic H&M find/replace as MS?

P.S. The users are known to spend much time for a non-intellectual operations but for a primitive ones...
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Victor,
What complicated to trace first and second symbols at once to replace them with "X-Mas tree quotes" ->
It would be easy if you were using different characters for the starting and ending " characters. The problem is, they are the same character in the original -- you simply use a " character both at the beginning and the end of a quote. It is surprisingly difficult to identify which one is a starting quote and which one is an ending quote automatically. 8)
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Tim Green wrote:It would be easy if you were using different characters for the starting and ending " characters.
But you can add an option (if possible... I hope :wink: ) in find/replace dialog (see picture below).
I can do this with MS Word and Open Writer too but as I told before even to paste in MS Word and re-paste back to H&M topic breaking own styles as lists, paragraphs, tables etc.
To paste a single text only without styles from H&M as I see not to be "possible"...
Yes, I can paste it in Notepad then in MS Word (but in Notepad it breaks a word wrapping...)...
Every breath the text takes IS analyzing H&M's styles after quote's replace... :x
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Brad Currier
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Brad Currier »

Many word processing programs (such as MS Word, FrameMaker, TextMaker, and Jarte) have a “smart quote” option. You can set a configuration that causes the program insert a smart quote (”) when you type a tic ("). The program is able insert an opening smart quote at the beginning of words and an ending smart quote at the end of words. Why can’t such a configuration be established in Help&Manual?

As a matter of fact, in both MS Word and Jarte, you can use Search and Replace to replace all tics with smart quotes. Just type a tic in the Find field, and paste a smart quote into the Replace field, and then do Replace All. The program replaces tics that are at the beginning of words with an opening quote and tics at the end of words with a closing quote. Again, why can’t that behavior be built into Help&Manual? (It's possible to do that with single quotes right now.)

Currently, my solution is to type the word or phrase, including the quote marks, into Jarte in order to I get my smart quotes. Then I paste the phrase, including the smart quotes, into Help&Manual. I find that to be a fairly efficient solution, but I am wondering why Help&Manual is not able to support smart quotes in an automated fashion — since, as I said, this is a standard feature in so many word processing programs.
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Hi!
Dear Brad, I'm glad to find an ally in this serious question :applaud:
Brad Currier wrote:Many word processing programs (such as MS Word, FrameMaker, TextMaker, and Jarte) have a “smart quote” option. You can set a configuration that causes the program insert a smart quote (”) when you type a tic ("). The program is able insert an opening smart quote at the beginning of words and an ending smart quote at the end of words.
Me too. But the problem to edit an imported large text with non-matching quotes is more difficult then to make document from the begining...
Brad Currier wrote:Why can’t such a configuration be established in Help&Manual?
Saying DocBooc/XML it's solved with a possibility to insert a some variable etc.
Brad Currier wrote:As a matter of fact, in both MS Word and Jarte, you can use Search and Replace to replace all tics with smart quotes. Just type a tic in the Find field, and paste a smart quote into the Replace field, and then do Replace All. The program replaces tics that are at the beginning of words with an opening quote and tics at the end of words with a closing quote. Again, why can’t that behavior be built into Help&Manual? (It's possible to do that with single quotes right now.)
The user can insert as not one quote symbol as many many more (with a various symbols too)... The editor, processer, tool etc must "trace" all these abnormals and replace with that the user need.
Brad Currier wrote:Currently, my solution is to type the word or phrase, including the quote marks, into Jarte in order to I get my smart quotes. Then I paste the phrase, including the smart quotes, into Help&Manual. I find that to be a fairly efficient solution, but I am wondering why Help&Manual is not able to support smart quotes in an automated fashion — since, as I said, this is a standard feature in so many word processing programs.
Sorry if H&M developers won't see a silver lining after user's word rain :wink: but I'd like to offer them thinking one more time for simply solutions helping us.
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Victor, Brad,

Smart quotes are already on the list for Help & Manual 7. 8)
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Hi Tim!
Tim Green wrote:...Help & Manual 7...
Silver lining :wink: but WHEN...
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VictorL
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by VictorL »

Today I found H&M for replacing quotes very good but with some things I need to alert... :mrgreen:
You can replace all quotes with your needing quotes in H&M project by Find/replace dialog.
Firstly to replace all first standing quotes you need in field Find What to type (saying for an example) space and existing quote -> ." (a red point is the space).
Next in field Replace With to type -> .
To press button Replace all.
Same to end quote symbol as ". as ».
To press button Replace all.
And after it you need to trace all possible combinations as (" ") ". "! "? etc.
But no need to insert text in MS Word and then to paste in H&M again loosing some styles... :evil:
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Re: Massive replacement commas ("...") with commas («...»)

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Victor,

Yes, a method like this will enable you to get most of the quotes right, but you still need to check everything afterwards. There are always situations where it doesn't work ("like this, for example"). :twisted:
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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