American English
Moderators: Alexander Halser, Tim Green
- Martin Wynne
- Posts: 2656
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 3:21 pm
- Location: West of the Severn, UK
I wrote that on January 30th last year.Martin Wynne wrote:"Different than" is never heard here in the UK. "Different to" is very common, but only "different from" is strictly correct.
I have just heard David Cameron, leader of the Conservative party here in the UK (currently not in power but well ahead in the opinion polls) say "different than" in a TV interview. It immediately grated on me, but no-one else seemed to notice or mind. So that's another battle well and truly lost if as seems likely he wins the next election.
Martin.
- Antonio Tejada
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 12:26 pm
- Location: Zurich, Switzerland
Re: American English
For what it's worth, I'm an American, and this is my take on these examples:Martin Wynne wrote:I have just wasted an hour in email exchanges with a customer
in the USA before realising that the word "momentarily" for him
means "soon, very shortly, almost immediately", whereas for me
in the UK it means "lasting only briefly".
I already know the common ones, of course. e.g. "check the box"
which for him means "put a tick mark in the box" and for me means
"look in the box". Or "alternate" which for him means "alternative"
and for me means "swapping to and fro".
momentar[il]y: for me, this also means "of short duration". When the captain of an airplane says "We will be landing momentarily", my instinct is to ask whether we'll be on the ground long enough to egress before the plane goes airborne again.
alternate: this is three words: a verb ("alter-nate"), and an adjective and noun ("alter-nut"). "The current alternates its polarity 50 times per second." vs. "He lives in some kind of alternate reality." and "In case my boss doesn't show up, I'm the alternate."
That said, there really aren't that many differences -- people tend to exaggerate them. And also (please don't take this as an attack), many British speakers tend to misattribute errors they hear: when they hear an American make a mistake, they say "Oh, that's American." No, actually, it's just wrong! (My Mom is an English professor in Switzerland, and she even finds examples of that in British textbooks.)
Regards,
Antonio
- Martin Wynne
- Posts: 2656
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 3:21 pm
- Location: West of the Severn, UK
Re: American English
Hi Antonio,Antonio Tejada wrote:"He lives in some kind of alternate reality." and "In case my boss doesn't show up, I'm the alternate."
Thanks for your comments.
In the UK that usage is rarely heard, it would be "alternative" in both cases. If you said "He lives in some kind of alternate reality", it would suggest to many in the UK that he was swapping to and fro between two states of reality.
I also noticed: your airplane, our aeroplane; your quote marks outside the full stop (period), ours inside it.
Everything is exactly the same and completely different.
Martin.
- Alexander Hompe
- Posts: 182
- Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:01 am
- Location: Germany
For me (I'm *far* away from all your subtle differentiations) it is still the question, do I have to write 'color' or 'colour'? I think like Tim in his post in 2004. (a very old thread ...) We sell in continental Europe only and would like to use British English, but American English seems to be a standard for user interfaces. So we currently write 'color' in the program's user interface and in the help file we write "Change the colour with the 'color' button." ...
It's stupid, isn't it?
Regards,
Alex
It's stupid, isn't it?
Regards,
Alex
Help & Manual 6 Professional Edition
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
Windows 7 Ultimate 64bit
I love this thread; it is very interesting. The posts began to digress from the original question but all were fun to read. I'm a native US citizen and unfortunately I'm one who has never learned another language.
When it comes to some of these kinds of phrases, if I have any question at all, my mentors taught me to think of another way to say it. Usually it does make my text longer. For example, instead of "check the box" I say "click to place a check in the check box." Hopefully that prevents some misunderstandings.
I want to add my opinion about incorrect English. If it's considered incorrect I wish it would stay that way! "Ain't" wasn't considered a word long time ago but now it's in some dictionaries. "Irregardless" isn't a word but many people think it is. Before you know it dictionaries will add it as well. Grrrr!
I know this doesn't solve all of the problems discussed but sometimes we can choose different words that are less ambiguous. I agree with Martin that I would like to have a list of words that are often ambiguous because I often won't know unless I've run into a problem before.
When it comes to some of these kinds of phrases, if I have any question at all, my mentors taught me to think of another way to say it. Usually it does make my text longer. For example, instead of "check the box" I say "click to place a check in the check box." Hopefully that prevents some misunderstandings.
I want to add my opinion about incorrect English. If it's considered incorrect I wish it would stay that way! "Ain't" wasn't considered a word long time ago but now it's in some dictionaries. "Irregardless" isn't a word but many people think it is. Before you know it dictionaries will add it as well. Grrrr!
I know this doesn't solve all of the problems discussed but sometimes we can choose different words that are less ambiguous. I agree with Martin that I would like to have a list of words that are often ambiguous because I often won't know unless I've run into a problem before.
- Tim Green
- Site Admin
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This is getting a bit off-topic, but if you want ambiguous words German is the best language of all, it has an unparalleled vocabulary for anyone who wants to avoid clarity at all costs.
This begins with the use of the passive voice for almost everything. Instead of saying "Put the detonator in receptacle A" they will say "The detonator is to be put in receptacle A". This is often OK, but when you are writing specifications where who does something is important it can get very problematic. I once did a few months translating specs and procedures for a firm that makes mining explosives, and I constantly had to consult with the engineers to find out who was supposed to be doing what, and when.
The classic vague German word is beziehungsweise, which can mean "and", "and/or", "both/and", "both" or "or" depending on how you are feeling and the phase of the moon. It is used constantly in texts and by politicians when the writer or speaker is unsure of which alternative they really mean or want their audience to understand. When translating legal briefs I often had to ask the attorney which option he/she really meant, and this generally elicited a lot of embarrassed humming and hawing.
My personal theory is that this has historical origins: Until quite recently Germany was not a single country but a collection of small principalities ruled by absolute monarchs. I imagine it was immensely important to be diplomatic and avoid affront in dealings with your neighboring state, and so they developed a comprehensive vocabulary for that purpose.
Which is not to say, of course, that English and American writers and speakers can't also be deliberately vague...
This begins with the use of the passive voice for almost everything. Instead of saying "Put the detonator in receptacle A" they will say "The detonator is to be put in receptacle A". This is often OK, but when you are writing specifications where who does something is important it can get very problematic. I once did a few months translating specs and procedures for a firm that makes mining explosives, and I constantly had to consult with the engineers to find out who was supposed to be doing what, and when.
The classic vague German word is beziehungsweise, which can mean "and", "and/or", "both/and", "both" or "or" depending on how you are feeling and the phase of the moon. It is used constantly in texts and by politicians when the writer or speaker is unsure of which alternative they really mean or want their audience to understand. When translating legal briefs I often had to ask the attorney which option he/she really meant, and this generally elicited a lot of embarrassed humming and hawing.
My personal theory is that this has historical origins: Until quite recently Germany was not a single country but a collection of small principalities ruled by absolute monarchs. I imagine it was immensely important to be diplomatic and avoid affront in dealings with your neighboring state, and so they developed a comprehensive vocabulary for that purpose.
Which is not to say, of course, that English and American writers and speakers can't also be deliberately vague...
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)
Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)
Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
- Martin Wynne
- Posts: 2656
- Joined: Mon May 12, 2003 3:21 pm
- Location: West of the Severn, UK
My favourite is "in due course". Which sounds as if the matter will be given weighty consideration, when in fact it will be ditched within 2 seconds of putting the phone down or licking the stamp.Tim Green wrote:Which is not to say, of course, that English and American writers and speakers can't also be deliberately vague...
If you want the opposite effect, you can't beat a sentence which begins "Furthermore, ...".
Martin.