Looking at Windows 8

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Tim Green
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Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Tim Green »

I've been playing with the retail version of Windows 8 for the last few days and I'm still not quite sure what to think. Here are some of my initial impressions, I'd be interested to hear what other HM users feel about it. It's definitely not like Windows 7, where it was immediately clear that it was the best version of Windows that Microsoft had ever released. This may be because it's so different and unfamiliar, but I'm not really sure yet.

The main problem is that almost all the major improvements in the system itself -- and there are lots of them -- are going to get forgotten because the entire experience and impression is going to be dominated by the new "Interface formerly known as Metro" user interface and its combination with the traditional Windows Desktop which is also no longer really the traditional Windows Desktop. There's lots to like: Booting up the machine is almost frighteningly fast, even on a normal hard drive. The inclusion of the Ribbon in the new File Explorer, which replaces Windows Explorer, makes many functions much more accessible. There are terrific new features for repairing and restoring Windows without losing your data. The file system includes major new auto-backup and versioning features. And on and on and on.

My primary concern it that the schizophrenic nature of the combined "Interface formerly known as Metro"/Desktop is going to be so jarring and confusing for "normal" users that they are going to reject it, which would result in enough negative publicity for a replay of the Vista drama. I'm not really worried myself about the elimination of the Start menu because the new Metro start screen includes pretty much everything that the Start menu used to have. But I think it's a big mistake not to have a Start button in the same place where it used to be that will also open the Start screen. That simple trick would make the transition much easier for many, who will otherwise fumble around until they find the invisible areas in the corners that open the new menus or hit on the idea of pressing the Windows key. Simply having a Start button that opens the Start screen would make it instantly accessible and clear that it's a replacement for the Start menu.

The schizophrenic nature of the system is also more than skin deep. For example, the Start/Metro interface has a simplified version of the Control Panel that frequently refers users to the main Control Panel. A lot of things can only be configured in the main Control Panel and there is no clear path for getting there unless you know how. There are two versions of Internet Explorer: a simplified version without plugin support in the Metro interface and a "full" version in the normal Desktop interface. It may not always be clear why something is working or not working in IE, depending on which version you are running. And when you are in the Metro interface applications will ONLY run in full screen, which is fine on tablets but a little bit redundant if you have a 27" monitor.

Shutting down a Windows computer currently requires opening the Start menu, but at least you can then see the shutdown button immediately. To shut down Windows 8 you have to do this:
  1. Hover the mouse in the bottom right corner until the Charms Bar appears.
  2. Select Settings
  3. Select Power, then select Shut down in the popup menu.
It's easy once you know it's there, but lots of people will have trouble finding it and I find it difficult to understand why the designers chose to make it so non-obvious. Unfortunately, the whole interface is full of things like this that seem to have become less intuitive rather than more so.

On tablets the Metro interface will probably be excellent, particularly on RT tablets where the Metro interface is basically everything. The Pro tablets with the full version of Windows available may be interesting for pro users, but will definitely require an additional keyboard and a mouse to be usable. This has the potential for being very attractive down the road, the question will be if it ever gets there. If there is a massive user-level rejection of the schizophrenic interface it might not happen. I really don't know which way it will go at the moment, my instinct is that it could go either way, 50/50.
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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John Waller
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by John Waller »

Tim Green wrote:The main problem is that almost all the major improvements in the system itself -- and there are lots of them -- are going to get forgotten because the entire experience and impression is going to be dominated by the new "Interface formerly known as Metro" user interface and its combination with the traditional Windows Desktop
That's what I'm bracing for - a torrent of "Huh?" when people see it, esp first timers.

Radical change always generates strong reactions initially. But if the change has a point to it, people may warm to it quickly.

There's the rub for me. Is there a real point to Windows 8 and its breathtaking changes?

What can we do radically better with Win 8 than with any other version of Windows? Not much that I can yet see.

Windows 8 (formerly Metro) may be to Windows 9 what Vista was to Windows 7. Windows 7 is really what Vista should have been originally. If Microsoft sense Windows 8 going the same way as Vista, Windows 9 may be rapidly accelerated.

Has Microsoft created a killer OS or a turkey?

I'm leaning (51:49) towards turkey but the jury's still out for me - and this looks like being a months-long trial with lots of nights in hotel rooms.

Ironically, the success or otherwise of Windows 8 may be driven as much by hardware (the smartphone and tablet revolution) as it is by Microsoft's smarts. Is Windows 8 simply a preparatory exercise for touch screens in our lives?

However, Microsoft so far is doing a woeful job of preparing the market for what's to come
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John Waller
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Tim Green
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi John,
What can we do radically better with Win 8 than with any other version of Windows? Not much that I can yet see.
And that's the problem. Corporate customers are going to reject it on sight because it provides insignificant immediately apparent hard benefits combined with significant retraining overheads, so they're going to be using Windows 7 for another five to eight years. Normal consumers who get it on a new computer are going to be stumped, combined with the fact that there are only going to be a minimum range of very basic Metro apps available initially.

Windows 8 tablets could potentially be more successful, but even if they're good there will be very few dedicated apps for them on release and it will probably be around a year before the market develops. And meanwhile the iPad and Android juggernauts continue to roll. Given the current lead of iOS and Android, Microsoft should have been conducting a huge campaign with lots of attractive incentives, testing hardware and more to get developers working seriously long before the release. They seem to have already forgotten Ballmer's "Developers! Developers! Developers!" rant... :?
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Darren Rose
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Darren Rose »

Hi

Have to agree with most of your comments - but the more time I spend with it (have had it running on main machine since the release preview) the more I get to like it

Have also got it installed on an Acer W500 tablet and on here it is much more usable - they certainly seem to have got the touch side of it working well, and it is as easy to navigate and use as my ipad - but without the limitations to what I can install/use etc

P.S. Quicker way to shutdown is ctrl-alt-delete and then click shutdown

Have demo'd it to a lot of my "home" customers and the jury is still out - let's hope it works out and is not yet another Windows ME or Windows Vista
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John Waller
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by John Waller »

Darren Rose wrote:Have to agree with most of your comments - but the more time I spend with it (have had it running on main machine since the release preview) the more I get to like it
I just wonder if the general populace is prepared to give it time to grow on them.

Few people I know enjoy "getting to like" their computer. They just want to get stuff done without jumping through hoops.
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Tim Green
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Darren,

I do actually like it quite a lot, and there's a lot to like and there's nothing unstable or buggy about it. I can get used to pretty much any user interface as long as it works somehow. But on a big monitor the dual experience really doesn't work all that well and for the time being I'm definitely sticking to W7 as my main working and development system. I have a suspicion that there is going to be a lot of major reworking of the user interface along the line when the first real feedback comes in. It's certainly a brave move on Microsoft's part and this time they are really betting the ranch on it. At the moment I think everyone in the tech industry is kind of holding their breath and wondering which way it is going to go, which is an unusual situation for a major release like this.

Also, is it just me or does the flat, boxy Metro look get old pretty fast for others as well? Subjectively my Windows 8 desktop feels older and more dated than my Windows 7 desktop (particularly the "Desktop" part, IE as opposed to the "Interface Formerly Known As Metro".
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Darren Rose
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Darren Rose »

John Waller wrote:
Darren Rose wrote:Have to agree with most of your comments - but the more time I spend with it (have had it running on main machine since the release preview) the more I get to like it
I just wonder if the general populace is prepared to give it time to grow on them.

Few people I know enjoy "getting to like" their computer. They just want to get stuff done without jumping through hoops.
Yes agreed - luckily working in IT and liking computers does mean I spend more time getting used to things and trying them out - but yes "normal" everyday users won't be quite so forgiving I think - I am personally doing everything I can to write help guides etc for my customers to try and help them get used to it quicker (hopefully!)
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Darren Rose
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Re: Looking at Windows 8

Unread post by Darren Rose »

Tim Green wrote:Hi Darren,

I do actually like it quite a lot, and there's a lot to like and there's nothing unstable or buggy about it. I can get used to pretty much any user interface as long as it works somehow. But on a big monitor the dual experience really doesn't work all that well and for the time being I'm definitely sticking to W7 as my main working and development system. I have a suspicion that there is going to be a lot of major reworking of the user interface along the line when the first real feedback comes in. It's certainly a brave move on Microsoft's part and this time they are really betting the ranch on it. At the moment I think everyone in the tech industry is kind of holding their breath and wondering which way it is going to go, which is an unusual situation for a major release like this.

Also, is it just me or does the flat, boxy Metro look get old pretty fast for others as well? Subjectively my Windows 8 desktop feels older and more dated than my Windows 7 desktop (particularly the "Desktop" part, IE as opposed to the "Interface Formerly Known As Metro".
Yes I like it too - took a while to get used to - but now I navigate around it without really thinking - but must admit I spend more time on the "desktop" than I do in the new metro/modern UI view

Some of the improvements are great such as ribbon and more options in Windows (File) Explorer - but some of the metro (modern UI) apps do look a bit too basic, especially things such as the mail app

It is a very brave decision by Microsoft, but one I believe they had to make - as without a major change things would just roll on as before and if they want to make new device (tablets etc) and appear different then maybe this will work - but only time will tell

I have taken the plunge and have it running on my main work system and have even got Office 2013 running as my main version - so far all seems good, and as you say it definitely appears to be stable

As for the metro look, yes I think it will start to look old very quickly, and only time will tell to see if MS decide to make changes early on following customer feedback

The biggest annoyance for me is the "expert menu" that you get by right clicking start icon - this is great for accessing system settings quickly - but seems really odd that no way to access same menu on a tablet device!
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