No vertical scroll in IE9

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Malcolm Jacobson
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No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Malcolm Jacobson »

Hi Tim,

I've been testing our (customised) Premium Pack skins in IE9 and I noticed today that the scroll bar does not appear when topic content expands beyond the vertical height of the window.

Tested the same content in Firefox 4 and it works fine.

Cheers,

Malcolm.
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Malcolm,

I'm afraid you've borked your skin... it works fine in IE9 in stock condition, I've tested it extensively. 8)
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Malcolm Jacobson
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Malcolm Jacobson »

Hi Tim,

I tried publishing the content using the unedited 1.31 "slate_blue_horiz.hmskin" and I get exactly the same result. No vertical scroll-bar in IE9.

The page consists of a set of expanding-text toggles.

I can send you a screenshot via email if you want to see an example.

Cheers,

Malcolm.

EDIT: I should note that a vertical scroll bar does appear if the topic contains "normal" content that extends beyond the height of the screen. The problem seems to be that the page height is not updating in IE9 as the toggles are expanded.
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Malcolm,

Then please do send a demo project to support AT ec-software.com (replace the AT with @), because we use toggles extensively and they work fine in IE9. :?
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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fairful
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by fairful »

I have encountered the same problem, though not linked to expanding text, but any time the page exceeds the window height. I am using V5.6 build 1340, and premium pack 1.41 skin. The problem appears in all browsers, when outputting web help. No problem in .chms. I have narrowed the problem down to the PP TOC show/hide option. With this option enabled, no scroll bar, disable it and pages scroll normally.

Curiously, with the option enabled and the problem manifesting, the tooltips for disabled buttons (topic directory etc) show "<feature> requires javascript" rather than the appropriate message. (Javascript is enabled) With the option disabled, these tooltips show the correct message.



Regards, Stuart
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Stuart,

We can't reproduce this problem on IE9 here. Also it should be physically impossible for this to happen in version 1.41 because there the vertical scrollbar in topics is on permanently -- if it's not needed it's grayed out, but it's there. In addition to ensuring it's always available, this is also to prevent the annoying reflow of topic content when the scrollbar appears if it's not always there.

My guess is that this is only happening on your server and that you are using a "smart" FTP program to update your help. The result can then be that not all your files get updated, which can result in a "mixed" setup with all sorts of problems when you update templates. You can solve this problem quickly by deleting all the files in your WebHelp folder on your server and re-uploading the entire contents of your local output folder. Also make sure that you delete everything in the output folder before republishing with a new skin, and clear your browser cache before testing the new version (the browser cache will often also serve up old files).

Please also make sure that the option "Enable local testing for Internet Explorer" is turned OFF in the Publish dialog. This option should never be used for help placed on a server or for production help, it is really only for quick local testing.

The reason for all this is as follows:

When there are changes in H&M templates without changing your topics, the topic timestamp does not change, although its content does. This is because the topic timestamp is only changed when you actually edit the topic itself. This is necessary for a number of technical reasons, primarily for synchronizing old and new projects with the Project Synchronizer tool. This means that if you make any changes to your templates or your project settings it is always best to re-upload everything, because most FTP programs only compare file timestamps. Some compare file sizes, but that is also not reliable, because it's quite possible for subtle setting changes to leave the file size identical. There are some FTP programs that do content comparisons to see if there have been changes in the files but using this feature doesn't make sense because all the files on the server need to be downloaded for the comparison. This is actually much slower and uses much more bandwidth than uploading everything fresh.

The other alternative is to use an FTP program that supports comparing the archive bits of your files. You can set Help & Manual to set/reset this for your topic files when they have any changes (including template-related changes) in Project Explorer > Publishing Options > Webhelp > HTML Export Options. Then you can use an archive-bit-aware FTP program like Second Copy (http://www.secondcopy.com/), which supports archive bit transfers and is also an excellent auto-backup program for general use.

If none of this helps, please send a demo project and the skin copy you are using to support AT ec-software.com (replace the AT with @) and we'll check it.
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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fairful
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by fairful »

Hi Tim,

About uploading - in fact I am testing using IIS on a machine on my local LAN, and copied the files carefully just using explorer - I deleted the originals just to be sure! In any case, the problem also manifests identically when viewing the produced on the local file system, after dismissing the "HELP SYSTEM ALERT:" (which by the way I am getting now in chrome 12.0, Firefox 5.0 and IE 9.0).

As for the scroll bar - sorry I was not quite exact - the scroll bar is there, but the slider disappears, so scrolling is not possible. That is, except for IE, where the slider is there but occupies the entire scroll bar, so again scrolling is not possible.

Just to recap, the PP TOC show/hide option reliably causes the problem here, and removing it reliably clears it. I will send you the project and skin (standard one) that's causing the problem to the address you mentioned.


Regards, Stuart
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Stuart,

Thanks for the information, this is quite odd -- also the Chrome bug warning, which you should only be getting in Chrome and only when the help is opened locally. I can't reproduce the problem at all with your project. Everything runs fine in IE9 and all other browsers, the scroller is always there. A couple of your topics are exceptionally long, so the scroller is very small in IE9, but it is still there.

I can only imagine that something on your system is different from our systems, and also from those of all other users. Otherwise we would be getting a flood of complaints. Do you have any special settings for your IE configuration, in particular special security or lockdown settings?
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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fairful
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by fairful »

Hi Tim,

I would have to agree with you that it must be something here - I would imagine something failing as reliably as it does here would certainly cause comment. I can't give you a URL yet - I've just started writing this website and won't be publishing it for a few weeks. However, I will send screenshots so you can get an idea of how it looks here.

Also interesting is your comment about the chrome bug. I'm definitely getting the alert in all browsers, though the text is different (doesn't mention chrome). I'll send screenshots of that too. I think another clue has to be that the button tooltips show "javascript is required for xxx".


Regards, Stuart
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Stuart,

I programmed the Chrome "feature" checker to be browser agnostic in case any other browsers start using the same approach as Chrome. It doesn't actually check for Chrome, it checks for the specific feature that causes the problem. I'm mailing you a modified copy of the JavaScript file that will only display this warning when the browser is Chrome and there is no web server present.
I think another clue has to be that the button tooltips show "javascript is required for xxx".
Aahhh.... (headsmack) If JavaScript is turned off in Internet Explorer then basically nothing will work. To get the functionality you must have javascript enabled. And yes, the scrollbar in topics currently doesn't work with JavaScript turned off. There needs to be a proper fallback for that so I'll look into it. For the moment, however, you need to have JavaScript activated for this to work properly.
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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fairful
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by fairful »

Now that's an advance! However, I do have Javascript turned on in all browsers. Otherwise, I wouldn't see the alerts - they are titled "Javascript Alert". But somehow, some code somewhere is being fooled into thinking there's no Javascript.


Regards, Stuart
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Tim Green
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Stuart,

In the browser where you are seeing those "Javascript required" mouseovers on the navigation buttons JavaScript is definitely not working. The noscript version of the header is the default version and it is only switched off and the script version switched on if JavaScript is active. So if you are seeing that then JavaScript is definitely not running in that browser.
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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fairful
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Re: No vertical scroll in IE9

Unread post by fairful »

Hi Tim,

Javascript is definitely enabled. As I said, if it weren't I wouldn't be getting the Alerts - these are generated by the javascript "alert" function. I have sent you screenshots, one showing an alert, and one taken just afterwards, showing the scroll problem and the 'no javascript' tooltip.

This is a real conundrum, and no mistake! But it's not caused because Javascript is not enabled. Something is screwy somewhere, and I do accept that it may not be the fault of your code. It might though! (*grin*)


Regards, Stuart
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