Formatting issue

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Nicolas Wicke
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Formatting issue

Unread post by Nicolas Wicke »

Hello,

This is most likely not a bug, however this one has been annoying me ever since I started with Help & Manual.
When returning the cursor (backspace, mouseclick, left arrow) just after the last character of a word with basic formatting (bold/italic/underline) and starting to type from there on, the new text assumes the formatting of the previous word.
As far as I know, this is not standard behaviour of text editing (e.g. MS-Word).
To simulate, proceed as follows:
- type a word and format it, e.g. to bold.
- switch off the formating
- start typing > formating is normal > OK.
- return the cursor to right after the last formatted character and start typing again > the new text assumes te bold formatting.
As said, this is not the way how e.g. MS-Word acts.

Furthermore, when continuing to type this way, the text remains formatted but without the appropriate indication in the toolbar!

Image

Chances are slim there will be any solution for this, however I still wanted to report it :wink:
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Martin Wynne »

Hi Nicolas,

All other programs I use work that way too, and it's what I expect to happen. Formatted words normally have a trailing space after them, so if you don't want to pick up the formatting, don't backspace over the trailing space.

I don't use MS-word, and don't know anything about it. I don't see any reason why H&M should emulate it. It's just fine being itself as it is.

regards,

Martin.
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Nicolas Wicke
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Nicolas Wicke »

Ok fine, I kind of expected this :)

But still, in my opinion then the formating indication in the tool bar should change accordingly :wink:
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Tim Green
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Nicolas,

Martin is correct, this is just the standard behavior of this particular editor engine. This is not something that can be changed, any more than you could change the way that Word stores all its formatting in the paragraph end mark placeholder, which HM doesn't do. (Word doesn't actually store it in the end mark, it's just a pointer to the actual formatting, but you get the idea...)
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Simon Dismore
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Simon Dismore »

Nicolas Wicke wrote:the formating indication in the tool bar should change accordingly
The ribbons in Photoshop, InDesign, Word, Outlook and indeed the RichViews Actions Demo all behave the way Nicolas expects, so I think H&M's anomalous behaviour should be investigated as a bug. I've written it up below.

Simon

Bug report: Font section of Write ribbon is not updated consistently when caret is moved via keyboard

Description: The Font section of the Write ribbon should indicate the formatting that will be applied to the next character typed. When the caret is moved into a differently formatted area using the mouse or the cursor <Right> key, the ribbon is updated as expected. However, when the caret is moved using cursor <Left>, <Up> or <Down> the ribbon is not updated when the caret crosses the boundary into the differently formatted area. If the caret is then moved one character further, the ribbon will be updated.

Steps to reproduce:
1. Open the "Get me started" sample project in H&M 6.1
2. Select the "Publishing your project" topic
3. Locate the paragraph numbered "3"
4. Place the caret between the "f" and "i" of "field"
5. Cursor left twice
Bug: the ribbon does not indicate italic, and indicates the wrong style
6. Cursor left one more time
The ribbon is now correctly updated
7. Cursor up once
Bug: the ribbon does not indicate bold, and wrongly indicates italic
8. Cursor down three times
Bug: the ribbon indicates the wrong style and format
9. Use the mouse to move the caret to each of these locations in any sequence
The ribbon is correctly updated in each case.
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Nicolas Wicke
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Nicolas Wicke »

Thank you Simon,

Your example illustrates the second part of my issue perfectly :D
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Tim Green
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Simon et al...

I've passed this on to Alexander and Michael and they're looking into it. At the moment I'm not quite sure what is possible or will be implemented -- to be honest it's not anything I have ever even for a second been troubled by or even so much as noticed myself -- but we're definitely looking into it. 8)
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Tim Frost
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Tim Frost »

I would like to add my name to the list of those for whom this is an annoyance. Over the years I have simply learned not to trust what it says anywhere in the ribbon's 'font' area after certain caret and cursor moves; I have assumed it was simply a deficiency of the editor and the usual answer to editor issues is that there is no quick fix.
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John Waller
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by John Waller »

Tim Frost wrote:I would like to add my name to the list of those for whom this is an annoyance. Over the years I have simply learned not to trust what it says anywhere in the ribbon's 'font' area after certain caret and cursor moves;
Same here.
Regards

John Waller
v.6.2.2 Build 2636
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Martin Wynne
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Martin Wynne »

I suspect this bug relates to the working of the ribbon component (which I have never liked).

I don't think we can blame the RVF editor because in my own apps using the RVF editor everything works fine as expected. The formatting buttons and font fields always show the state of the character to the left of the caret, and are set from the editor's CurTextStyleChanged event:

Code: Select all

procedure Tsb_rich_form.sb_rvf_editorCurTextStyleChanged(Sender: TObject);

var
  font_info:TFontInfo;

begin
...

  font_info:=sb_rvf_style.TextStyles[sb_rvf_editor.CurTextStyleNo];

...

  bold_button.Down:=(fsBold in font_info.Style);

...

I suspect the H&M ribbon is using the OnKeyDown event for the arrow keys to set the button states. This results in the ribbon displaying the state of the character to the left of the caret before it was moved. This seems to correspond to the observed behaviour.

But like Tim it has never bothered me -- you can see directly whether a character is bold, italic, etc. without referring to the ribbon display.

Martin.
Simon Dismore
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Simon Dismore »

Martin Wynne wrote:But like Tim it has never bothered me...
I know what you mean, but of course if we want H&M to survive and prosper, we need lots more people to adopt it. "Minor" UI issues may well be worth fixing to ensure a positive impression when people try out H&M for the first time. When I'm checking out someone's software and find bugs in the UI, I tend to assume that what's hidden under the surface is flaky too. Don't you?

Merry Christmas everyone

Simon
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John Waller
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Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by John Waller »

Simon Dismore wrote:When I'm checking out someone's software and find bugs in the UI, I tend to assume that what's hidden under the surface is flaky too. Don't you?
Well said, Simon.

That's always been a hallmark of H&M to me - fixing things because they need fixing rather than leaving them because they don't bother people or don't seem to significantly affect some workflows.

The glow on hover delay (the glow did not disappear fast enough) in the Ribbon buttons comes to mind during the H&M6 beta. It was 0.2 seconds too long and drove me nuts during lengthy editing sessions with many buttons glowing simultaneously. It got fixed during the beta and it now works superbly to my eyes.

Attention to detail and polishing even the seemingly minor cosmetic issues so that they "just work" is what separates the great from the excellent.

In recent years, Adobe has introduced JDI ("Just Do It") features into each new version of its software. Minor annoyances that they've fixed simply because they're there to be fixed.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/4223572

They gained a lot of street cred for that approach. Some people use them 1,000 times a day. Others never.

Likewise I'd love to see this Ribbon bug fixed so that every command in the Ribbon works as expected, consistently.
Regards

John Waller
v.6.2.2 Build 2636
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Martin Wynne
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Location: West of the Severn, UK

Re: Formatting issue

Unread post by Martin Wynne »

I wasn't suggesting it shouldn't be fixed. If it was my software I would want it fixed. But I have a hunch that it won't be easy. The problem applies only to the arrow keys and not when moving the caret with the mouse, so the ribbon obviously isn't using the RVF StyleChange event for this.

Just checked in HM4 and it was working fine. I suspect it's a problem with the ribbon component (introduced in HM5).

Martin.
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