HM7 as website creation tool

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KarlG
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm

HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by KarlG »

Hello,

Does anyone have any thoughts on using HM7 as a tool for creating websites using the responsive webhelp output?
Have downloaded HM7 to check it out, but any thoughts on the matter most appreciated.

On the one hand it seems like buying a license to do that seems a little like overkill, on the other hand, limitations of things like wordpress and services like squarespace and the need for a good content management system, responsive output and ebooks etc makes the new HM7 seem very attractive.

Mainly what I'm after is a tool to replace wordpress with the ability to publish a website with responsive content that works across multiple devices without the need for getting into very heavy configuration to achieve that.

I think the potential for responsive output is the big thing. Looking through the help I found:
Single Page Responsive:
This is only displayed when editing a skin. It is a special output format for responsive WebHelp that will work across multiple device platforms (desktop, tablets and smartphones). Currently, it will NOT "just work" if you just select it. It requires extensive JavaScript and CSS programming on the part of the author because all the special scripting and CSS for this is not generated automatically. The scripts and CSS must all be included manually in a skin using this mode. It will be documented in future updates when our own responsive WebHelp skins have been released.
http://www.helpandmanual.com/help/hm_wo ... responsive


How does this relate to responsive webhelp output (skins)? My assumption is that responsive output will be responsive across all devices - but then thought I'd better check.

I guess I'm also a little confused in what is included with the pro version in relation to the premium pack.
If I do not get the premium pack, am I looking at a lot of configuration to get responsive webhelp?

Been experimenting with squarespace recently, very clever but....
Having ditched robohelp some years ago, I'm a bit out of the loop on what is what. :oops:

Thanks.
KarlG
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by KarlG »

Okay - no worries, I think I've found out what I need to know.
Please delete this thread to prevent clutter.
Simon Dismore
Posts: 454
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Location: London, UK

Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by Simon Dismore »

I just noticed this on the news blog (many thanks to Martin Wynne for that link):
After the release of Help+Manual 7, we got a lot of feedback on the new responsive Webhelp and we are still working on new skins, to integrate your wishes and requirements. Stay tuned for updated and new skins with more configuration options in the next couple of weeks.
So it appears the potential for using HM7 as a creation tool is only going to get better.
KarlG
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by KarlG »

Simon Dismore wrote:So it appears the potential for using HM7 as a creation tool is only going to get better.
Look forward to reading more on that.

I've been looking in the online help for info on getting the best results for responsive layouts, does anyone have a link to any HM documentation that discusses considerations and best practice for setting up a project to be responsive?
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Tim Green
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Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Karl,
KarlG wrote:I've been looking in the online help for info on getting the best results for responsive layouts, does anyone have a link to any HM documentation that discusses considerations and best practice for setting up a project to be responsive?
This will be coming as soon as I am through with the development of the new responsive version of the Premium Pack. This is taking longer than expected, partly because it's a huge project and partly because I also have to do all the Help & Manual support and documentation as well... 8) Sorry about that...

Basically, however, you need to observe these points for responsive WebHelp:
  • Set your font size encoding to Ems. This is an absolute requirement, because then Help & Manual will automatically encode all other dimensions in your page content with the relative values that allow pages to adjust dynamically.
  • Stop using tables for layout purposes. Tables were never designed for layout, and they will break responsive design. You can continue to use tables for tabular data because the new PP skins will have a special dynamic system that will reformat tabular data tables for smaller devices. (Within limits, of course -- even a dynamically converted table won't work on a phone if it has 200 columns... :twisted: )
  • Use the new responsive settings for images, image toggles and video placeholders in Help & Manual 7. This will enable your images to work correctly on all devices, both now and in the future.
  • Don't use "Chapters without Text" in your TOC. These were always a bad design choice because they confused users, but they get worse in responsive layouts. The new PP skins TOC will handle them gracefully, but it is much better if they aren't there at all, and they're forbidden in Kindle and EPUB eBooks anyway.
The table restriction in particular should give you an indication of one of the hard truths of responsive design: With it comes the need to accept that we are going to have less control over our layout options in the future rather than more. Even in desktop websites we tend to have the desire to lay out everything "just so", as we would be able to in a high-quality coffee table book. If you want web pages to work on everything from a 30-inch monitor to a 4-inch smartphone you have to drop that wish entirely. It is no longer possible.

Pages must now be completely fluid, and controlled layout is a thing of the past. If you want responsive layout you just have to accept that. There is no way around it. The alternative is to continue to create different, separate versions of your WebHelp for desktop, tablet and phone browsers. That will also continue to be possible, and we are going to continue to offer automatic redirects for the different device types in the PP skins to enable this. It is more work, but it is sometimes a better solution. Particularly on smartphones, you often need different content as well as a different layout for optimal performance. Users on phones have a much shorter attention span, and displaying your entire content on a phone is not very effective if nobody reads it... :)
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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KarlG
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by KarlG »

Many thanks for that, Tim.
Tim Green wrote:Particularly on smartphones, you often need different content as well as a different layout for optimal performance. Users on phones have a much shorter attention span
http://www.dumpaday.com/funny-pictures/ ... e-18-pics/

Not sure if it is a trend but something I've noticed with the rush to so called responsive design is that a number of websites that used to be more information rich now seem to have a 'tellie-tubbie' front end and it now seems harder to drill into content. Dunno - maybe it's me.

Anyway - thank you for taking the time to post that; it has given me some more to experiment with and is very helpful.

As well as looking at squarespace and wordpress, I've also been watching coffeecup with their responsive layout maker; now if H&M could bring in something at the content level where containers were dropped into the content area and then populated, and these containers were fluid in their positioning dependent on screen size, then my belief that there is a santa claus (or maybe sanity clause) would be renewed. :)
KarlG
Posts: 16
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:01 pm

Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by KarlG »

Tim,

Over on: http://helpman.it-authoring.com/viewtop ... 34&t=13820 you said:
"However, new HTML5 features with something called the "history API" have made it possible to change the URL dynamically without reloading the entire page. This technology is integrated in the Premium Pack skins, which also have a Permalink feature to make it even easier for the user to copy the URL of the current page."

So where I asked (above):
"I guess I'm also a little confused in what is included with the pro version in relation to the premium pack.
If I do not get the premium pack, am I looking at a lot of configuration to get responsive webhelp?"

Are you indicating that the premium pack skins have something that the standard skins do not, and to get the best responsive results it is best to use the skins from the premium pack?

What I want is the topic organisation of H&M with responsive output for a website where I can choose where to host (unlike squarespace where you are tied to their platform because of their scripts & css and have the drawbacks of cloud based development and storage - call me a luddite but I like to know where my content is).
It's seeming like I need to be thinking of a pro license for H&M plus the premium pack, but if I were to get the current premium pack, would it be a case of then having to buy the new premium pack when that comes out?
Tim Green wrote:This will be coming as soon as I am through with the development of the new responsive version of the Premium Pack.
I am still researching what the best solution for my project is going to be; it is not a big commercial thing, so the thing that is holding me back is stumping up for H&M7 when I'm not actually working on software documentation projects - i.e. 'sledge-hammer to crack a nut?' is what am asking myself - sorry for rambling - writing this down helps me think about what I'm doing, but I would appreciate some more info on the premium pack.
Thanks.
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Tim Green
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Re: HM7 as website creation tool

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Karl,
Are you indicating that the premium pack skins have something that the standard skins do not, and to get the best responsive results it is best to use the skins from the premium pack?
No: At the moment the Premium Pack skins are not fully responsive. That is coming in version 3 that we are going to release as soon as possible. For the time being, the only responsive skins in Help & Manual are the new standard responsive skins (with the word "responsive" in their names) included with Help & Manual 7.
What I want is the topic organisation of H&M with responsive output for a website where I can choose where to host (unlike squarespace where you are tied to their platform because of their scripts & css and have the drawbacks of cloud based development and storage - call me a luddite but I like to know where my content is).
Note that even with Premium Pack 3, "responsive" does NOT include showing and hiding topics or content for different platforms. That isn't physically possible. The main problem there is that it would not be possible to change the search and index keyword results to match what people are seeing. The only way to get that is to have different versions for different platforms, with automatic redirects to take the users to the correct version for their device. That is already possible with the current Premium Pack skins, but it requires that you publish different versions for each platform.
It's seeming like I need to be thinking of a pro license for H&M plus the premium pack, but if I were to get the current premium pack, would it be a case of then having to buy the new premium pack when that comes out?
No: Everyone who buys or upgrades to Premium Pack 2 now will get a free upgrade to PP3 as soon as it is available. 8)
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
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