CHM problem in 7.1 pre-release

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Tim,

I installed the pre-release version of 7.1 from your link at: https://helpman.it-authoring.com/viewto ... 911#p58911

On my Windows7 (64-bit) system I now have a problem accessing the CHM Help from the ribbon menu. (It was fine in 7.0).

After clicking the ribbon item, the CHM viewer opens blank, and it takes 19 seconds before the Help appears. Then every time I click a topic, it takes 17 seconds for the Help page to change. This delay seems to increase according to the size of the project currently loaded in H&M.

Looking in the Windows Task Manager, I noticed that every time I do anything in the CHM viewer, HELPMAN.EXE runs for a few seconds.

The CHM viewer is working fine in other software, and HelpMan.chm also works fine if I launch it directly from the EC-Software programs folder*. Which solves my immediate problem, but doesn't explain what is happening above.

I normally prefer the Webhelp version online, but need the CHM for the Premium Pack Help.

My Windows7 system is fully up-to-date. I tried re-downloading and re-installing HM 7.1 with no change.

I have also tried a cold shutdown and Windows restart with nothing else running, and I also tried installing 7.1 in its own separate program folder. No change.

Trying 7.1 on my Windows10 Surface Pro 3 there is no problem, although there is a longer delay than before in the initial opening of the H&M Help, about 5 seconds. After that it works fine and topics display instantly.

p.s. do I need to re-install the Premium Pack after upgrading to 7.1 and/or will there be a new PP download for 7.1?

regards,

Martin.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

I can't reproduce this on the Windows 7 machine, at least not in the virtual machine. What build version you running? The current version is 7.1.0 build 3914. You can get it here:

http://download.ec-software.com/help-an ... 0-beta.exe

I'm going to alert Alexander to this post as well, but if you're not running the current build please do try it.

[Martin Wynne]

What build version you running? The current version is 7.1.0 build 3914.

Hi Tim,

??? I downloaded from your link, which installed itself as 3910. Which is what I was previously running. No change in the long-delay CHM behaviour.

I still have HM6 installed, so I have just tried it. 6.5.5.3019. The CHM opened instantly and worked normally. Same Win7 machine as above tried within minutes of each other, with nothing else changed or accessed on the system. The CHM is also working normally in all other software.

regards,

Martin.

[Martin Wynne]

p.s. Tim,

I have just tried completely uninstalling HM7 and PP3.10, and re-installing them from scratch (7.1.0.3910). No change in CHM delays, before or after re-installing PP3. Interestingly, the PP installer includes a link to open the CHM, and that worked fine.

Thinking it might be something on my system relating to new program installs or the registry, I have just upgraded another major piece of software requiring a full uninstall/re-install (Flashback Pro 5). That went without incident, and the CHM works fine on there.

regards,

Martin.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

Sorry, the release candidate actually has a different download link:

http://download.ec-software.com/help-an ... p-v710.exe

I missed that because I've been using an auto text for the beta download link

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Tim,

Thanks. I did a Windows restart, and then downloaded and installed 3914 with nothing else in use. Installed without incident.

But the CHM problem remains. From within H&M the CHM viewer opens blank, and takes 22 seconds to display the first topic page. However the inter-topic delay has improved somewhat, and now takes only 8 seconds to change from one topic to the next. This is still far too long to be convenient of course.

Just to recap for Alexander:

Windows7 64-bit fully up to date.

HM6 still works fine on the same system. In HM6 the CHM opens instantly and displays topics without delays.

The CHM viewer works fine stand-alone, including HelpMan.chm launched directly from the HM7 program folder. I have created a desktop shortcut for this purpose (a useful addition to H&M perhaps?).

The CHM viewer is working fine in all other software, including after doing upgrades.

HM7 and the CHM is working fine on Windows10.

The problem seems to be entirely confined to HM7 on Windows7, when the CHM Help is launched from within HM7. Both from the ribbon, and from the Help buttons on the dialogs. Using 7.1.0.3914

HM7.1 is working fine in all other respects.

regards,

Martin.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

When looking into this. I'm seeing a less extreme version of what you describe on Windows 10 on my Surface Pro 3. There, I'm getting the delay opening the help, but no delay between topics. This is very bizarre, and at the moment I have no idea what might be causing it. I'll report back as soon as we have more information.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

I'm now getting exactly the same phenomenon is you on windows 8.1, including the slow switching between topics. This is not directly related to 7.1, it's also happening with older versions of Help & Manual. However, it's not happening on Alexander and Michael's computers. It is related to the difference between 64 bit and 32 bit mode. If you open the help file by double clicking on it in Windows Explorer everything will work fine. That is because there are it is opening in the 64 bit context. Help & Manual is a 32 bit program so it is opening the help in the 32 bit context.

The question here is, what is the common factor between your computer and mine? Do you have the dragon dictation software installed, or did you have it installed? I'd tried it out over the weekend but uninstalled it because it monstrously overloaded my system. However, there is a possibility that it may have made some change to the help system. I definitely wasn't having these problems before the weekend, but this may be coincidence and not causality.

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Tim,

I have now installed 7.1 3920 on my Win7/64 bit system. No change. 22 seconds to display the first topic in CHM.

I have also now also installed it on my Win10 Surface Pro 3. After initial launch of H&M, now 8 seconds to display first topic in CHM. Further closings and openings of CHM take 4 seconds to first topic. Switching topics is instant. This definitely wasn't happening on there with H&M 7.0 last time I tried, CHM was instant.

I just tried HM6 again on my Win7 system. 6.5.5.3019. CHM opens instantly and switches topics instantly.

I haven't made any recent changes to either of my systems. But there were some lengthy Windows Updates last week on the Win7 system. Against that, HM6 is still working perfectly on there.

I don't have Dragon or any dictation software installed.

Puzzled,

Martin.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

Thanks for this. Were getting a little closer to whatever it is. It is definitely related to recent windows updates. It doesn't happen on systems that don't have the most recent Windows updates and does on those that do. Also, only the main Help & Manual help is affected. The help for Impict and Manual Designer both open and browse instantly. It may have something to do with runtime merging, since the Premium Pack help is merged into the main Help & Manual help. We're working on it.

For the moment you can browse the help at normal speed by opening it directly with Windows Explorer. That won't help for context links however.

[Martin Wynne]

Hi Tim,

The problem is caused by virus-scanning every time the CHM is accessed.

I was seeing similar delays in the launching of H&M itself and suspected as much.

I turned off "Real Time Protection" in MSE, and then H&M launches instantly, and so does the CHM.

This leaves the puzzle of why it doesn't apply to HM6, and how to get round it (I don't want to leave it turned off, obviously).

regards,

Martin.

[Tim Green]

Hi Martin,

Bingo! I'm sure we can find a solution for this, I'll let you know.

[Tim Green]

Martin,

You can add the Help and Manual program directory to the excluded files and folders section in Windows Defender. For the time being at least, that will solve the problem without switching off Real-Time protection for the entire computer.

[Alexander Halser]

H&M's EXE size is significant, that's why it probably takes that long.
But it is not just Help+Manual, other software vendors have this problem as well:
http://forum.mirchronicles.com/forum/mi ... s-defender

And the problem goes back to older versions of H&M as well. It's the Windows Defender update the causes it, not the update of Help+Manual 7.1. The only cure seems to exclude the Help+Manual installation folder from scanning. This speeds up the CHM display as well as the start of H&M.

windows-defender-exclude-helpman.gif

[Tim Green]

I think I've just found the real reason, windows is performing a new heuristic check. If you turn off the option to automatically open your recent projects on start, then the problem goes away. It seems that the virus check is throwing a hissy fit when it sees that HM is accessing multiple files on startup.