Toggle jump - in reverse?

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Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:35 pm

WebHelp output.

I see that, on Page A, I can use the Toggle Jump feature to open a toggle (whose content resides on another page, Page B) by inserting a link to it on Page A.

Is there a way to do this in reverse? That is, when you click on the toggle on Page J to open it, the content of the Toggle (in effect) is created before your very eyes, sourced from another page. Page K?
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Tim Green » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:58 pm

Is there a way to do this in reverse?

No. :)
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Martin Wynne » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:26 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:Is there a way to do this in reverse? That is, when you click on the toggle on Page J to open it, the content of the Toggle (in effect) is created before your very eyes, sourced from another page. Page K?

Hi Dave,

You can do this if the content is contained in a snippet. You would use the same snippet on both Page J and Page K. It doesn't have to be in a toggle on both. It could be permanently displayed on Page K and only displayed via a toggle on Page J.

That's what the snippets are for. But if used in a toggle they need to be quite short -- toggles which open to contain more than a single screenful can be confusing to users. A link to another page is better in that case.

regards,

Martin.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:29 pm

Excellent, and thanks once again, Martin. I'll experiment with this.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Tim Green » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:23 pm

Hi Dave,

Martin's solution will work but I didn't think that was what you are asking: It won't be created dynamically when the user clicks on the WebHelp. It will always be there, and will also be visible in the topic editor in Help+Manual. My "no" was in response to your request for (probably changing) dynamically sourced content in toggles. That isn't possible. :)
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Tue Feb 13, 2018 2:52 pm

I'm a bit confused. In H+M, when I edited the text that's linked in the toggle snippet, the toggle content reflected the edits - that is, it changed as well. It seems dynamic in that sense.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Martin Wynne » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:15 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:I'm a bit confused. In H+M, when I edited the text that's linked in the toggle snippet, the toggle content reflected the edits - that is, it changed as well. It seems dynamic in that sense.

Hi Dave,

Tim meant dynamic in the sense that they are created at the time when the end user clicks on them. That requires PHP files on the server, and iframes.

For example, displaying the latest cricket score.

regards,

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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 3:56 pm

I think -- and time will tell -- that we need dynamic updating only during development of the help file, not at runtime on the Web. Thus, the Web-visible snippet can draw from 'frozen' material, as long as it happily scrolls its way open on the WebHelp when the user clicks on the Toggle heading-- and it appears to do that.

Scenario: our help file begins with a simple step-by-step tutorial. The toggles are in that tutorial. These toggles draw from a section further down the tree, a section on "Concepts," and it's there than we need a lot more depth than should be pumped into a toggle via a snippet.

Is there any way to sequester anything out of what serves as the snippet source, a H+M topic?

I'm asking because the contents of the snippet, the later topic, can well serve double duty as an intro to a more complete section, and I'd like to throw in a couple of linked sub-topics at the end of the snippet-ed topic.

That way, for example, I can have a minimal definition of something toggle open in the tutorial, then later (in Concepts) allow the user to go deeper by linking to in-depth considerations.

Is there a way to keep those linked sub-topics from appearing in the tutorial's toggled appearance? It looks as though, since I'm snippet-ing a topic, everything in the topic will appear in the toggle.

If not, no biggie.

I'm just looking for a way to the keep tutorial jockeys on the tutorial page, rather than giving them (early and maybe too-early) access to links to the in-depth sub-topics.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Tim Green » Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:15 pm

Hi Dave,

See the documentation on snippets here:

https://helpandmanual.com/help/index.ht ... ippets.htm

If there are any questions left after that, try again. 8)
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:07 pm

Appears that I have the option to include the topic in its entirety in the snippet. No pieces, no excerpts, all or none. As you said earlier, this is more or less using snippets off-label, to use a pharmaceutical phrase. As I said, the situation is not a stopper, and I suppose we should be encouraging our users to delve more deeply anyway...

or wait - maybe I could set up a "snippet project" and pump the basic verbiage from this project into both the toggle in the tutorial and the topic in the Concepts section. That way, I could add whatever I want in Concepts. Except -- how does this work in WebHelp? The contents of the snippet project would have to be somewhere in the WebHelp HTML files right?
Last edited by Dave Gehman on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Martin Wynne » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:11 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:Is there a way to keep those linked sub-topics from appearing in the tutorial's toggled appearance? It looks as though, since I'm snippet-ing a topic, everything in the topic will appear in the toggle.

Hi Dave,

What you are asking for there is a way to pass parameters to a snippet. That isn't currently supported in H&M (as far as I know), but you might like to post it to the wish list.

There are two ways to do what you want:

1. don't use the whole topic as the snippet. Just use part of it as a snippet in both places. That needs planning so that the extra links, etc., are not within the snippet part. Or,

2. use some scripting. That will work only for HTML-based outputs. Using HTML Code Objects, put a <div> around the paragraphs containing the unwanted links, give them all a class name and set style="display:none;". Then at the bottom of the topic (but outside the snippet) insert a bit of script to change it to display:block;. Since that script isn't in the snippet, the paragraphs containing the links won't be displayed in the tutorial.

regards,

Martin.
Last edited by Martin Wynne on Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:14 pm

Martin - we were posting simultaneously.

Coding - no. Too much coordination required, since I don't directly control the process of putting the help on the Web, and the software I'm documenting is constantly changing.

But -- how do I select only a section of a Topic -- that is, NOT use the whole topic?
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Martin Wynne » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:26 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:But -- how do I select only a section of a Topic -- that is, NOT use the whole topic?

Hi Dave,

Tim provided the link to the Snippet help. from which:
_____________________________________________

Export selected text as a snippet:

1.Select text in the editor – the text can include anything that a topic can contain, i.e. also images, tables, etc.

2.Select File > Save Snippet in Project > Manage Topics and choose a save location and a filename.
_____________________________________________

That should be 2. Select Project > File > ... (not the File menu):

save_snippet.png

And why File is highlighted in that view instead of Project is one of the mysteries of the Windows Ribbon component. I hate the damn thing.

However, what you then need to do is to delete the selected text and then replace it with the snippet just created. That way, if you later edit the snippet it will update in both places. Tim, should the Help not make that clear?

regards,

Martin.
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:43 pm

I think that's what I was saying when I glommed on to the fact that I could create a "Snippet Project."

But I'm still unclear how that works with WebHelp.

Maybe because it's NOT dynamic, by the time the text reaches the Web, the snippet contents are already in place in both the tutorial and the Concept uses of the snippet?
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Re: Toggle jump - in reverse?

Unread postby Tim Green » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:47 pm

However, what you then need to do is to delete the selected text and then replace it with the snippet just created. That way, if you later edit the snippet it will update in both places. Tim, should the Help not make that clear?

Linked snippets always update automatically when their source is edited, that is made clear. You can't cover every single possible use case in documentation, however. If you try to it becomes even less helpful than documentation that doesn't describe anything at all, in addition to making the documentation problematically expensive. In my experience, the more detail you provide the less it tends to get read and the more people just ask support for a quick explanation instead, which is also self-defeating. 8)
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