Using _ (underline) as bullet

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Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Steffen Heller » Tue Oct 16, 2018 7:07 pm

Hello,

according to our CI specification I am supposed to use underlines (the sign: _) as bullet point for list items.
I know that there is a menu "Bullet style" (Ctrl + N) and that it can be customized.

But how can I use a "normal" sign that is not listed in the character map under "Custom Bullet ..."?
Can I enter some code into that input field "character code"?
If so, what would be the right code for underline?
I read about and tried "_" and "#95" but it didn't work.
Thanks for helping
Steffen
My current Version: 7.4.0 Build 4590
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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Simon_Dismore » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:56 am

Steffen Heller wrote:Can I enter some code into that input field "character code"? If so, what would be the right code for underline?
I read about and tried "_" and "#95" but it didn't work.
It's in hexadecimal, so 95 is 5F. Steps are
  1. Bullets and Numbering...
  2. Click the 'Customize ...' button
  3. Click the 'Custom bullet ...' button
  4. Select font '(Regular text)'
  5. Enter 'Character Code' 005F
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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Steffen Heller » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:36 pm

Simon_Dismore wrote:It's in hexadecimal, so 95 is 5F. Steps are (...)

Thanks a lot. Great help.
I didn't know that "95" must be entered as "5F" and that "(regular text)" switches back to normal fonts (I was clicking some other font names but nothing changed).

By the way, I confused "underscore" with "underline" in my original question. But seems that it got across correctly anyways ;-)

*******************************

Unfortunately, It just dawned on me that changing bullet styles in one place is just part of what I am actually searching for ;-)
So I have to come up with two follow-up questions that go a little further:


1. Automatically changing all the lists at once? With styles?

It seems that when I highlight one list and follow the above steps, only this one list is changed.
What would be the easiest way to change all the lists in my document all at once?

Is there a way to change from bullet point to underscore once and then have all the lists adapt accordingly?

So far, my lists are created as a combination of "Normal" text and a click on the "Bullet style" menu.
Instead, I thought I could define a specific list style that includes definitions for bullet points. But when I create a new style (based on the "Normal" style) I can't find any list settings at "Font Settings", "Paragraph Settings" or "Borders and Background".


2. Switching back and forth between different list styles to create different PDF versions?

I have hundreds of pages of documentation and need to publish two different PDF versions, one with bullet point lists and one with underscore lists (among other things).
How could that be achieved?
Is there a way to easily switch back and forth between different list styles? In a way that leaves the pages and their lists untouched and only adapts publishing settings?

The PDF output of my other documentation is controlled with CSS and here I just have to change "list-style-type" and "position" of "ul li".
Just in case, something similar is possible with Help & Manual ;-)
Thanks for helping
Steffen
My current Version: 7.4.0 Build 4590
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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Tim Green » Wed Oct 17, 2018 12:55 pm

Hi Steffen,

1. Automatically changing all the lists at once? With styles?

Unfortunately, this is one of the few remaining major limitations of the Help+Manual editor. List formats are not styles, and they are separate from the style system. They are actually just formatting templates, that are applied when you create the list and then the formatting is stored inline. You can format the paragraphs in a list with a style, but the list attributes (bullet, levels) are separate from the styles and cannot be changed globally. More about that here:

https://helpandmanual.com/help/index.ht ... styles.htm
https://helpandmanual.com/help/index.ht ... tomize.htm

Is there a way to easily switch back and forth between different list styles? In a way that leaves the pages and their lists untouched and only adapts publishing settings?

Unfortunately, no. The only way to achieve this would be with two versions of each list, tagged with different conditional text tags using user-defined build options. Then you could specify which version you want to use by selecting the corresponding tag names in the Include Options box in the Publish screen.
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Steffen Heller » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:29 pm

Hi Tim,

I think I just discovered some room for future improvement :D
On a serious note, thanks for clarifying what can be done and what not.
Thanks for helping
Steffen
My current Version: 7.4.0 Build 4590
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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Rainer Oehry » Wed Oct 24, 2018 11:24 am

Hi Steffen,

I had a similar problem and found a solution that requires only a little additional work. May I offer it as a suggestion:

Instead of using standard bullet point styles, you could define a paragraph style with a hanging first line and apply it to all bullet points. As the "bullet character" you use a variable that gets assigned the required symbol from a custom variable in the respective publication task. You could even apply a font or a color different from the text font and color by assigning the variable a "font only" font setting and "coloring" the variable …

Alternatively, and for even more flexibility, you could create a small "snippet" topic with different user-defined build conditions for the various bullet needs, and then insert this snippet "inline" into every "bullet point" paragraph as the bullet character. You could even use variables within the build conditions, that also could be imported from custom variables … this could be used for combining snippets with individual bullet characters in specific topics, where you could override the standard variables with local content …

Generally I recommend the extensive usage of conditions, snippets and (global and local) variables together with individual include options and custom variables for publication tasks. The H&M user interface could offer some more shortcuts, but the flexibility and the overall possibilities IMHO are (some of) the major strenghts of H&M.
Regards,

Rainer
Head of Technical Writing & Knowledge Management
TIG Technische Informationssysteme GmbH, Rankweil, Austria
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Re: Using _ (underline) as bullet

Unread postby Steffen Heller » Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:05 pm

Hi Rainer,

thanks for sharing your ideas. I just recognized your post.
At the moment bullet points are not that high on my priority list anymore but I keep collecting ideas and see what I can use of it in the future.
Thanks for helping
Steffen
My current Version: 7.4.0 Build 4590
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