7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

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7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 3:25 pm

But I don't know if it's the font (Segoe UI), H+M's PDF writer, or an impossible-to-render mix of English and Japanese

The 7.4 beta (7.4.0 Build 4532) is a magnitude better at handling mixed Japanese and English, but there are still issues.

[All the output shown below uses the Standard_manual.mnl template.]

In the following, on the Japanese (left) side, note at 2. how "Knowledge Bridge" appears to be a full line lower than the Japanese for "introduction" though it should be on the same line -- and at 2.1, the smaller "Knowledge Bridge" is similarly too low, to the point where it overwrites 2.1.1
Image

I will say that this is hugely better than ouput from H+M 7.3.6 Build 4521, which had many more vertical spacing issues and looks like this:
Image
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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Tim Green » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:27 am

Hi Dave,

Thanks for this feedback. It would very helpful if you could mail your demo project and the .mnl you are using to support AT ec-software.com (replace the AT with @) so that we can check them directly.

What is important to understand about mixed-language text is that NO fonts actually render both Asian and Latin languages. They only actually render the languages they are designed for. Any other languages will get a fallback font chosen by Windows, and that is pretty much pot luck. If you are using different languages in the same project the only way to really handle it properly is to use language-specific fonts for each language, applying them with paragraph styles for entire paragraphs in one language and text styles if you have mixed different languages in the same paragraph. Mixed languages in places where you can only define one font, like the TOC and topic headings in PDF, should be avoided if at all possible.

You can see the design languages of each font in the Fonts panel in Windows. Just select the font there and you will see it in the details displayed.
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Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:51 am

Tim Green wrote:Hi Dave,

Thanks for this feedback. It would very helpful if you could mail your demo project and the .mnl you are using to support AT ec-software.com

I'll put together a small project, probably not today.

Mixed languages in places where you can only define one font, like the TOC and topic headings in PDF, should be avoided if at all possible.


Uh-oh. Our brand team has decreed that the product name shall never be translated.

What happens if we were to manually substitute a JPEG or PNG of the product name, with vertical placement hard-coded, in place of the product name's text in table_of_contents.xml?
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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Tim Green » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:11 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:
Tim Green wrote:Uh-oh. Our brand team has decreed that the product name shall never be translated.

What happens if we were to manually substitute a JPEG or PNG of the product name, with vertical placement hard-coded, in place of the product name's text in table_of_contents.xml?

That would probably be even more problematic. I would suggest waiting until the current issues are analyzed -- after all, it's not all finished. My guess is that you will probably get the best results by choosing an Asian font for mixed text where only one font can be set. Then you will get a fairly standard Latin font for the English, which has more chance of being handled correctly than the other way round.
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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Dave Gehman » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:44 pm

Taking it all into consideration - thanks.

Teach me where in Word that the language of the font is displayed? I'm not seeing it in the Font > Advanced dialog. Or maybe this info is retrievable in my aging Word Pro 2010...
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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Tim Frost » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:16 pm

Assuming you have installed some Japanese fonts, you can just select one in Word, or hopefully in any other Windows editor. For example MS-Mincho or MS-Gothic will give you most of ASCII (with some substitutions such as a Yen sign for backslash). You cannot actually enter the Japanese text easily without an IME, but you can certainly display them alongside the Japanese, and maintain your goal of non-translated words. They may look a little odd to us because they are fixed half-width characters, but this would be familiar to a Japanese reader.

2018-07-27_14-05-17.png
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Re: 7.4 beta - PDF - still having font problems

Unread postby Tim Green » Fri Jul 27, 2018 3:57 pm

Dave Gehman wrote:Teach me where in Word that the language of the font is displayed? I'm not seeing it in the Font > Advanced dialog. Or maybe this info is retrievable in my aging Word Pro 2010...

No, you can't view that in Word. You need to select the font panel in Windows. In the Windows settings search for Fonts (capital F) and you will then find the panel, or its replacement in Windows 10. In 10 you can then filter by language to find which fonts are actually designed for the language you are looking for. Otherwise just selecting a font will show you its details. If there is no "Designed language(s):" information that generally means it's only designed for Latin.
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