Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Please post all questions and comments regarding Help & Manual 7 here.

Moderators: Alexander Halser, Tim Green

Post Reply
ka_rexroth
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:41 am

Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by ka_rexroth »

We are using several pages in our manual with multiple Custom Build Tags (e.g. A, B).

Is there any way to achieve that this page is only included if A AND B are set during publishing? (instead of the default behavior of A OR B).

Background:
Our variants are basically a variant tree, e.g.:
- Size
-- s.large
-- s.small
- Color
-- c.red
-- c.green

=> now I have pages that only apply for the large, red variant. With the current behavior I would have to "multiply out" all tags...

PS: Interestingly the conditional text within a page behaves exactly opposite - there the only option to combine to tags is nesting (IF A... IF B... ENDIF ENDIF) which is an AND semantics...
User avatar
Tim Green
Site Admin
Posts: 23156
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:11 am
Location: Bruehl, Germany
Contact:

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Ka,

No, unfortunately you can't create AND logic for include options on the topic level (i.e. in the TOC or Project Files). There you only have the OR option because all the tags you apply are simply a serial list. What you can do to deal with requirements like this is use the alternative TOC option:

https://helpandmanual.com/help/hm_advan ... _tocs.html

Important: When using multiple TOCs, it's crucial to understand the difference in behavior between the primary TOC (always the first one at the top) and any additional, secondary TOCs. In HTML-based output the primary TOC always includes all topics in the output unless they are physically excluded with build option tags, even if they don't have TOC entries. In secondary TOCs, the TOC itself acts as a filter and only items with TOC entries are included, unless they have additional option tags applied directly in the Project Files section to include them.

This doesn't apply for PDF and Word output, because those are a single file and it's physically impossible to include topics that are not in the TOC there.
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
ka_rexroth
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:41 am

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by ka_rexroth »

Thanks for the clarification.

Not sure if the alternative TOC would help here - because even with a separated TOC the "deselected" content would still be there in chm and accessible e.g. via search, right?

Would you consider this a meaningful change request for a future product version? (after all organizing variants as feature tree seems the common approach :wink:). If so, what is the process for requesting this then?
regards, Karsten
User avatar
Tim Green
Site Admin
Posts: 23156
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:11 am
Location: Bruehl, Germany
Contact:

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by Tim Green »

ka_rexroth wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 11:53 am Not sure if the alternative TOC would help here - because even with a separated TOC the "deselected" content would still be there in chm and accessible e.g. via search, right?
No, because secondary TOCs filter what is exported in the same way as build options. Topic files not included in the secondary TOC are only exported if the files themselves have explicit build options to include them on the Project Files > Topic Files level.
Would you consider this a meaningful change request for a future product version? (after all organizing variants as feature tree seems the common approach :wink:). If so, what is the process for requesting this then?
Adding nested includes to the TOC has been suggested frequently, but it is problematic on many levels. It's already on the wish list, but its current chances of implementation are slim, unfortunately. I'll never say never, but it's not at the top of the list at the moment. :?
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
ka_rexroth
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:41 am

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by ka_rexroth »

Thanks. Will look into the secondary TOC again.

BTW: I would not even need full support for nested build options, having boolean operations on them would be sufficient (so if I could enter (A AND B) as condition that would already do). I would even be fine if I get a text field to enter that (because via GUI that gets messy anyway). Needed would be probably AND, OR, NOT and ().

BTW2: The conditional variables ON a page actually have the same problem the other way around. Again consider a variant tree
Var A
- subvar A1
- subvar A2
=> if I use these conditions only at flat list (so A1, A2) I cannot efficiently specify "include this text with ANY variant of A".
Solution here would be the same as above => support having boolean operations (AND, OR, ()) there also.

If that already exists on the wish list, can you please add our customer vote to that wish? (and maybe link it here). We are happy to provide more info here if needed.

best regards,
Karsten Angstmann
Engineering Mobile Electronics
Bosch Rexroth AG
regards, Karsten
User avatar
Tim Green
Site Admin
Posts: 23156
Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2002 9:11 am
Location: Bruehl, Germany
Contact:

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by Tim Green »

Hi Karsten,

Nested or Boolean on the TOC are basically the same set of problems, they're a group item on the wish list. 8)
=> if I use these conditions only at flat list (so A1, A2) I cannot efficiently specify "include this text with ANY variant of A".
That's not correct. It's fully OR logic, so if your includes are [A1, A2, A3,] the tagged text will be included if any ONE of those options evaluates as true. And you get AND logic by nesting: [IF_A1][IF_A2][IF_A3] text text text [END][END][END] will only include the text if all 3 evaluate as true.
Regards,
Tim (EC Software Documentation & User Support)

Private support:
Please do not email or PM me with private support requests -- post to the forum directly.
ka_rexroth
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:41 am

Re: Using multiple Custom Build Tags at page level

Unread post by ka_rexroth »

Hi Tim,

Oh my, you are right, I somehow overlooked that option for the conditional variants.
Thanks!

So I "only" need a similar flexibility with the page tags :-)

best regards,
Karsten Angstmann
Engineering Mobile Electronics
Bosch Rexroth AG
regards, Karsten
Post Reply