H&M4 - Table to text conversion

[esfabian]

Cannot find table to text conversion in any of the menues...

[Alexander Halser]

That's no longer included. Help & Manual reads tables properly from HTML and RTF documents.

[esfabian]

How do I convert a table to text? Some iof the tables I had in the HM3 version I want to convert to text, but I already made the HM3 -> HMX conversion.

Likewise, if I want to convert information in the existing HMX file, how do I make it into a table? How do I import a short plain text document into HMX and convert it into a table? Do I need to go through some other editor, e.g., winword, converting my text to table, save it as RTF, then import it into HM4?

[Tim Green]

Steve,

So far there are no text-to-table or table-to-text conversion features in H&M4. The only solution at the moment is to go via Word, which is not really very satisfactory. I and number of other users have already asked for this, however, so I'm pretty sure that it's on the wish list. However, no new features are going to be added before the release at the end of the month so we're probably going to have to wait a while on this one.

[Tim Green]

PS: When you copy tables from Word you no longer need to go via RTF, however. You can copy and paste fully-formatted text and tables directly from Word to H&M4.

[esfabian]

Too bad! Dropping features is never a good idea...

The table triggering my inquiry had only a single row, show I could easily "cut and paste" into plain text, but I have many others I want to convert. I wonder if I should go back to HM3 for the moment? How do I do that "easily"? I already edited many topics in HM4...

I had many topics where in HM3 I had to break my tables into multiple tables. The conversion did not merge them, and I do not see a method to do force merging tables provided by HM4, either.

[Tim Green]

Steve,

I understand how you feel.

I wonder if I should go back to HM3 for the moment? How do I do that "easily"? I already edited many topics in HM4...

I wouldn't go that far, that would really be a lot of work. For the time being I would paste to Word, do the table manipulation there and paste back to H&M. The trouble with doing this is that it disables any styles in the text that you copy and convert so you need a defined style you can re-apply again afterwards. I know this isn't really satisfactory but it is do-able.

I had many topics where in HM3 I had to break my tables into multiple tables. The conversion did not merge them, and I do not see a method to do force merging tables provided by HM4, either.

Did you use the fine-tuning options in the converter? If you play around with them you can usually get tables that don't have any extra material between them to merge. This is probably too late for your current project but it's worth remembering it for later.

The bottom line is I can only say I agree with you. Table Split, Table Merge, Text-to-Table and Table-to-Text are all high up on my Wish List too.

[esfabian]

I wouldn't go that far, that would really be a lot of work. For the time being I would paste to Word, do the table manipulation there and paste back to H&M. The trouble with doing this is that it disables any styles in the text that you copy and convert so you need a defined style you can re-apply again afterwards. I know this isn't really satisfactory but it is do-able.

Unfortunately, I have many tables where the individual columns use different fonts.

If I use Word to create an RTF and import that, will the column styles disappear? If so, HM4 is not a real improvement for MY project, regardless of what else may be available.

In fact, one of the user complaints about our help file I could solve if I could use background color for parts of a line, e.g., those that display the optional elements of a command.

Another of my pet issues is mouseless operation. I hate to put down the keyboard and pick up the trackball in the middle of editing a topic because some feature can only be activated by "clicks". For example, is it possible to edit the caption of either a link/anchor definition or a link invocation just by keyboard?

[Tim Green]

If I use Word to create an RTF and import that, will the column styles disappear? If so, HM4 is not a real improvement for MY project, regardless of what else may be available.

In my experience virtually all Word table formatting is retained. Try it out, you'll be surprised how good it is. Also, if you are creating individual tables you really no longer need to go the roundabout way of creating RTFs. You can cut and paste directly from Word to H&M4. You can also load individual RTF documents with Topic > Load/Save Topic, create multiple topics simultaneously (adding them to an existing project) with File > Import or create a new project based on an RTF document with File > New.

In fact, one of the user complaints about our help file I could solve if I could use background color for parts of a line, e.g., those that display the optional elements of a command.

You don't need to use tables for that. You can also set background colors for text and paragraphs.

I hate to put down the keyboard and pick up the trackball in the middle of editing a topic because some feature can only be activated by "clicks".

I'd hate that too -- I tried a trackball briefly and returned it to the shop after a couple of hours. Personally I found it was totally impractical and radically increased the time required to get my work done. I've experimented with other input devices as well, but I still haven't found anything faster or more efficient than a good mouse.

For example, is it possible to edit the caption of either a link/anchor definition or a link invocation just by keyboard?

Of course. Link captions can be edited directly, just move the cursor inside the caption highlight and type. To edit a link or an anchor use the Menu key on your Windows keyboard to display the right-click menu -- just place the cursor in or directly before or after the link or directly before or after the anchor -- and select Edit...

For everything else Tools > Customize > Shortcuts is your friend...

[esfabian]

Quote:
In fact, one of the user complaints about our help file I could solve if I could use background color for parts of a line, e.g., those that display the optional elements of a command.

You don't need to use tables for that. You can also set background colors for text and paragraphs.

What I meant is to use background color for just disjointed words in a line, preferrably enabled by a single keystroked, disabled by another. Like "font styles".

Quote:
I hate to put down the keyboard and pick up the trackball in the middle of editing a topic because some feature can only be activated by "clicks".

I'd hate that too -- I tried a trackball briefly and returned it to the shop after a couple of hours. Personally I found it was totally impractical and radically increased the time required to get my work done. I've experimented with other input devices as well, but I still haven't found anything faster or more efficient than a good mouse.

Noi, I love trackballs, and hate upside down trackballs (rodents), but it has been too many years since my "Cat" (a keyboard with built-in 3-button trackball, named for "the CAT catches the mouse") has died. Most (no - all) my work is done without a desk or table, so using any pointing device not integrated with the keyboard requires lots of extra effort. My problem is the occasional need to use the pointing device in the middle of text oriented work, such as helpfile development.

I also hate the "double cursor" - one for text and another for the pointing device. Of course, that complaint should go to Redmond, WA - not to Europe, where people don't throw away thing "tried and true" because someone elsecame up with a new idea.

Quote:
For example, is it possible to edit the caption of either a link/anchor definition or a link invocation just by keyboard?

Of course. Link captions can be edited directly, just move the cursor inside the caption highlight and type. To edit a link or an anchor use the Menu key on your Windows keyboard to display the right-click menu -- just place the cursor in or directly before or after the link or directly before or after the anchor -- and select Edit...

I believe that is new in HM4 - I could never do that without "clicking" in HM3.

And in imitation of Cato: "Caeterum censeo" I wish this Forum could be accessed as an ordinary newsgroup...

[Alexander Halser]

had in the HM3 version I want to convert to text

I read you post to quickly... Table to Text (and not text to table) does work. Select the paragraph that contains the table (the entire paragraph), right click it and choose "Convert to plain text". That converts anything into regular text and re-inserts it. If that paragraph contains a table, it is split into one line per cell.

[Tim Green]

Steve,

What I meant is to use background color for just disjointed words in a line, preferrably enabled by a single keystroked, disabled by another. Like "font styles".

Select text, select Format > Font and then set Text Background. To create a keyboard shortcut to do this just define a text-only style and assign a keyboard shortcut to it.

Note that the topic on defining styles in the version of the help that is online and included with the beta is out of date. It says that styles can also be accessed in Project Properties, which is no longer the case, and the instructions for text-only styles are also a little clearer in the new version. Should still be manageable, however...