Merged Projects and Read-only

[Andre.Greeff]

Hi there,

It seems as though the 'Open merged child projects read-only (recommended)' option is broken.... At least, for me it is. Could someone else maybe check this?

Whether I have it ticked or not, and with both parent and child topics not read-only, the merged topic always opens in read-only mode with the parent. This only started happening after I updated to 5.1.1 (build 750) though, the same project with the same settings worked fine in 5.1.0.

Just to let you know what I have tried so far: I have removed the child project, saved parent, closed and re-opened H&M and then added it again. It publishes fine, and there are no errors with creating links to the child, but it's a bit of headache trying to edit them as separate files after getting used to not needing to have separate projects open.

Any ideas...?

[Tim Green]

Hi Andre,

This is working fine in build 750, I just checked it. Note that after changing the setting from read-only to editable you need to save and re-open the master project. However, what you may be experiencing is a known issue in 750 that affects master projects if you have your child projects open both in the master project and separately at the same time. I'm sending you a link to a beta version that may correct the problem, please let me know.

[Andre.Greeff]

Hi Andre,

This is working fine in build 750, I just checked it. Note that after changing the setting from read-only to editable you need to save and re-open the master project. However, what you may be experiencing is a known issue in 750 that affects master projects if you have your child projects open both in the master project and separately at the same time. I'm sending you a link to a beta version that may correct the problem, please let me know.

Hi Tim,

I am aware of having to reload H&M after changing that setting, and I can assure you that I didn't have the child project open already when opening the parent project.

I did get your email with the beta version, so I'll download and try that now, thanks very much.

[Andre.Greeff]

Ok... Something very strange just happened. Before changing anything, I opened my project using build 750, and I couldn't edit the child project. Then I installed the beta (build 767 I think it was), opened my H&M project and all was good. So to test it and make sure, I went back to build 750; and now it's all fine... I honestly can't explain it.

[Tim Green]

Andre,

What is happening is that it is possible to get multiple copies of some configuration sections when you have child projects open both in a master project and on their own. This is not critical but it can cause some strange problems. HM was only reading the first copy, which didn't contain the activation for child projects. In addition to correcting the issue the beta also removes the multiple copies from your project, making it work again in build 750.

[Andre.Greeff]

Hi Tim,

Thanks for clearing that up for me, and for the beta version to help resolve the issue I had; greatly appreciated.

[Kathleen Laughlin]

Hi Tim,

I just had a bizarre (to me) problem. I created a copy of our H&M project in order to start working on the docs for the next release of our software. After working on it all day, the master project's table of contents suddenly became invisible and the entire master project was read-only, although the individual projects were editable when opened individually.

I found this reference to this problem on the forum but it's over a year old. However, from your explanation, I located the 'Open merged child projects read-only' option and, sure enough, it was checked--unlike the previous release's master project. After un-checking the option and reopening the master project, all was restored.

Let me just tell you what I was up to when this occurred: I had the master project open and, one by one, opened the individual (publish-time merge) projects. I wanted to update the custom topic statuses for the new release using the "Copy Properties from..." button > Copy Section. A few of them seemed to work, but then suddenly this problem with the TOC happened.

This earlier forum posting indicated that this was a known problem and that it had been resolved. However, perhaps it was re-introduced or this particular case was not considered? I'm providing you with as much information as I can so that you can attempt to reproduce it.

Let me know if you need additional information.

It was great to meet you and Alex at the Writers UA conference. I hope you're both well.

Thanks,
Julie Ross

[Tim Green]

Hi Julie,

Let me just tell you what I was up to when this occurred: I had the master project open and, one by one, opened the individual (publish-time merge) projects. I wanted to update the custom topic statuses for the new release using the "Copy Properties from..." button > Copy Section. A few of them seemed to work, but then suddenly this problem with the TOC happened.

Hmm... Which project were you copying the properties from? Was it one of the projects open in the current master-child tree? If so I can imagine that you might be able to create a kind of internal circular reference, particularly if the master project is involved. It would be important to know this. It is unlikely to be serious -- all that happened is that the read-only attribute got set for your child projects and this caused their TOC items to look as though they were not visible because of your color settings:

The "disappearing" is probably a color or filtering issue, caused either by the color or the filtering options for displaying or hiding read-only and filtered items in the TOC. Go to View > Program Options and check the filtering and color settings in the General and Editor tabs.

In the General tab the option is "When filtering table of contents do not hide nodes, display them with:" and then the color. If this is not checked any nodes currently filtered will be completely hidden (i.e. will disappear) in the TOC. If it is selected but you have a very pale color it may not be possible to see the filtered TOC items. You can turn filtering on and off in Project > Explorer > Filter.

The situation is similar with the color for read-only items, which you set in View > Program Options > Editor. If you set this too pale they may look invisible, particularly on some LCD monitors.

[Kathleen Laughlin]

Hi Tim,

The loss of color merely added to the shock value. I quickly saw that it surely had something to do with settings and filtering colors. When I selected "invisible" topics, I could see that my content was still there.

(I've just gone back and re-read your question. The short answer is: yes, I was copying from "one of the projects open in the current master-child tree".)

More details:

root folder: Master Project
-- child 1 project folder
-- child 2 project folder
-- child 3 project folder
-- child 4 project folder
...
-- child n project folder

I admit that I don't always consult the Help, but I have discovered that I can set up styles in one child project and then import the styles into other child projects, all through the master project.

However, because I have to use Configuration > Topic Status, I have to set up the statuses I want in one child project and then copy the properties to each child project. So, I just left the master project open while I did the following:
1. Set up child 1 statuses and closed child 1 project.
2. Opened child 2, copied status properties for child 1 (using Copy Section), and closed child 2 project.
3. Repeat for one or two more projects.
4. I probably clicked the refresh button in the master project, and that's when the TOC appeared invisible and the entire project became locked (in the master project only).

I hope this helps.

Julie

[Tim Green]

Hi Julie,

I hope this helps.

Only in theory. To analyze it we really need a small set of demo projects with which we can reproduce the error. However, you don't need to import your styles to multiple children if you are always publishing from the master. If you import the styles into the master project they will be available in the children -- anything defined in the master always has priority. Only styles with names that don't exist in the master will actually be used in the children.

[Kathleen Laughlin]

Hi Tim,

However, you don't need to import your styles to multiple children if you are always publishing from the master. If you import the styles into the master project they will be available in the children -- anything defined in the master always has priority. Only styles with names that don't exist in the master will actually be used in the children.

Well, that doesn't work for me. Our projects are merged at publish-time--is that why? Yes, I've found that if it's not in the master project, it won't be seen when published. But, I cannot define a style in the master project that is automatically visible (and usable) in the child projects. I have to somehow define the style in each child project. If I'm missing the point of something and you can save me time, please enlighten me!

Also, I really must start reading TFH&M! I should never have used Copy Section!!! I frankly didn't understand what I was doing. I inadvertently overwrote all of the project search paths for my child projects!!! Well, it was time to clean them up, anyway.

I'm sorry that I don't have time to provide you with a demo project that would reproduce my problem. I'm already behind schedule. Because I know of the work-around, I can live with it. I hope that the information I provided at least points you in the right direction to track it down. Obviously, it does not happen often or you might have other bug reports (as a former programmer, I know those are the worst kind).

Julie

[Kathleen Laughlin]

Hi Tim,

However, you don't need to import your styles to multiple children if you are always publishing from the master. If you import the styles into the master project they will be available in the children -- anything defined in the master always has priority. Only styles with names that don't exist in the master will actually be used in the children.

Well, that doesn't work for me. Our projects are merged at publish-time--is that why? Yes, I've found that if it's not in the master project, it won't be seen when published. But, I cannot define a style in the master project that is automatically visible (and usable) in the child projects. I have to somehow define the style in each child project. If I'm missing the point of something and you can save me time, please enlighten me!

Also, I really must start reading TFH&M! I should never have used Copy Section!!! I frankly didn't understand what I was doing. I inadvertently overwrote all of the project search paths for my child projects!!! Well, it was time to clean them up, anyway.

I'm sorry that I don't have time to provide you with a demo project that would reproduce my problem. Because I know of the work-around, I can avoid it and/or live with it. I hope that the information I provided at least points you in the right direction to track it down. Obviously, it does not happen often or you might have other bug reports (as a former programmer, I know those are the worst kind).

Julie

[Tim Green]

Hi Julie,

The style names must be defined in the child projects but their definitions are irrelevant. If styles with the same names are defined in the master then the definitions from the master will be applied on publishing, provided you are using publish-time merging.

Our projects are merged at publish-time--is that why?

No, it's the other way round: If you use runtime merging then each project will use its own styles.